The collapse of the Middle East peace process may have eluded Bill Clinton's desire to go down in history as the man who brought "peace" between Israel and the Palestinians. And it may have cut short Ehud Barak's tenure as prime minister of Israel, just 20 months after being elected with a mandate to make peace.
However, according to Professor Sol Picciotto, only the "most optimistic" would have considered the Oslo accords, upon which that "peace process" rests, as a sound basis for a just and lasting peace between Israel and the Palestinians, because "the details of the actual agreement make it clear that what in practical terms was on offer was a Bantustan-style arrangement".
For Professor Picciotto, who was born in Syria to Jewish parents and is currently professor of law at Lancaster University in the United Kingdom, "the establishment of a greater Palestine as a secular state with ethnic and religious guarantees for all" would constitute a reasonable basis for a just and lasting solution to the Palestine-Israel conflict. But, he says, "recent trends in Israel seem in the opposite direction".
The following is the text of an interview we conducted with Professor Picciotto via email on 7 March 2001:
[Redress Information & Analysis] Can you tell us something about your background?
[Sol Picciotto] I was born in 1942 in Aleppo (Halab), Syria, of Jewish parents. My father's family had been established there since the 18th century, part of the well-known Sephardi community. My mother came from Haifa, and was trained as a primary school teacher by the Alliance Francaise Israelite. My father came to Manchester, England, in 1946/7, initially to renew business contacts in the textile trade; but we were forced to leave Syria in 1947 due to inter-communal violence caused by the move to form a state of Israel, and we eventually joined him in Manchester in early 1948. I was educated in the UK, at Manchester Grammar School and Oxford University, where I read law, and went to the University of Chicago for a postgraduate qualification (JD). My first university teaching job was in Dar es Salaam (Tanzania), for four years; I was at the University of Warwick for over 20 years, and then moved to Lancaster in 1992. My main field of teaching and research has been in international economic and business law; but I have also published on topics in public international law, social theory of law and state, and aspects of business and commercial law.
[Redress] Why and when did you become interested or involved in the Palestine-Israel conflict?
[Picciotto] Because of my personal background I have obviously
always had an interest in these matters. My earliest memory of
becoming interested in political matters is during the Suez crisis,
when I was 14. Although I have never become professionally specialized
in Middle East politics, or the international legal aspects, I
have generally tried to keep myself broadly informed.
[Redress] How would you describe the typical Israeli popular perception
of the Arabs in general and the Palestinians in particular?
[Picciotto] I think it is hard to talk of a "typical"
perception, or even of a single or dominant perception held by
any Israeli. However, there is in my view a definite racist component
in Israeli attitudes to Arabs, especially Palestinians. This is
virtually unavoidable in view of the Zionist basis of the state
of Israel, which enshrines Jewish identity as a constitutive principle
of the state. It certainly runs through both social attitudes
and socio-economic arrangements, in particular the treatment of
Palestinian Arab workers in Israel as cheap labour. These are
the features that in my view dominate attitudes of Israelis towards
Arabs, especially Palestinians, even though culturally they may
have much in common, and even though some Israelis have more progressive
attitudes.
[Redress] Some Israelis (for example, Benjamin Beit-Hallahmi, in his book Original Sins: Reflections on the History of Zionism and Israel, Pluto Press, London, 1992) - and a growing body of opinion outside the Middle East believe that Israel must acknowledge the injustice of dispossessing the Palestinians in 1948 if there is to be any chance of a just and lasting peace in the Middle East. But the prospects of this happening seem almost non-existent. Why do you think this is? And how would you explain the paradox of the overwhelming majority of Jews in Israel and elsewhere (who have themselves historically suffered so much at the hands of Europeans) being so indifferent to the suffering Israel has and is inflicting on the Palestinians?
[Picciotto] As I understand it, Zionism is fundamentally incompatible with any recognition in practical terms of the injustice of the dispossession of the Palestinians. In fact, it is sadly the case that the strong feelings of most Jews about their own dispossession and oppression in the past fuel a self-righteous but aggressive attitude towards the Palestinians. The Palestinians have been made to pay for the European pogroms and the holocaust.
[Redress] Israel's Arab population is now close to one million, or nearly 20 per cent of its entire population, and it is growing at a faster rate than its Jewish population. Yet racial exclusivity - the idea of an exclusively Jewish state - lies at the heart of Zionism and the state of Israel. How do you think Israel will deal with this "problem" in the long-term?
[Picciotto] The aim seems to be to aim at a kind of Bantustan system for "Palestine".
[Redress] Do you think the Oslo accords constitute a sound
basis for a just and lasting peace between Israel and the Palestinians?
[Picciotto] Only if one takes the most optimistic view of what
was not actually included in the Oslo accords but might be read
into them, by virtue of Israel being willing to concede the principle
of some sort of Palestinian "state". However, the details
of the actual agreement make it clear that what in practical terms
was on offer was a Bantustan-style arrangement.
[Redress] Do you think a two-state solution - with Israel returning to its pre-1967 borders and a Palestinian state being established in Gaza and the West Bank - would be acceptable to the Israeli people and would satisfy Palestinian national aspirations?
[Picciotto] No, because the conditions Israel would wish to impose would negate the "statehood" offered to Palestine.
[Redress] Do you think Israel would ever be transformed into
a secular democratic state, with Jews and Palestinians coexisting
as citizens with equal rights and obligations? Does this idea
have any support among Jews in Israel?
[Picciotto] This would be my dream, but I see little basis for
it at present. Recent trends in Israel seem in the opposite direction.
[Redress] In your experience, how do Israelis or Jews generally reconcile the so-called "ingathering of exiles" - Jewish citizens of the United States, Europe and the former Soviet republics who have no links to Palestine/Israel - with the refusal to concede even the principle of the right of the indigenous Palestinians to return to the land of their forefathers?
[Picciotto] Their attitude is that it is up to the Arab countries to integrate the Palestinians. If one starts talking about the "land of their forefathers", then pro-Zionist Jews go back to Biblical claims.
[Redress] What kind of a settlement with the Palestinians do you think would be acceptable to the majority of Israeli Jews?
[Picciotto] Only one which would be unacceptable to the Palestinians, and to much of world public opinion.
[Redress] What in your view would constitute a reasonable basis
for a just and lasting solution to the Palestine-Israel conflict?
[Picciotto] The establishment of a greater Palestine as a secular
state with ethnic and religious guarantees for all.
[Redress] What role do you think the United Nations should
play in the current phase of the Palestine-Israel conflict?
[Picciotto] "The United Nations" consists of its member-states,
unless the secretary-general has room for an autonomous initiative,
which in my view is not the case here at present.
[Redress] How do you assess Britain's failure to condemn Israel's disproportionate use of force against unarmed Palestinians? Do you think its silence in this respect encourages Israel to continue with its present policy?
[Picciotto] I imagine that the British government considers it can have more influence behind the scenes. Even if they are wrong on this, I doubt whether any condemnation by the UK would have any effect on Israeli policy.
[Redress] How do you envisage the Palestine-Israel conflict
developing in the short-to-medium term? Do you think a settlement
could be reached now that Ariel Sharon has been elected prime
minister?
[Picciotto] Now that there is a "national unity" government,
at least Israel will be forced to clarify where it stands. My
guess is that there will be a period during which Israel will
play for time, hoping that the second intifadah will run
out of steam, or they can repress it. If this doesn't happen,
they may try a new initiative of some sort.
[Redress] What do you think of Ehud Barak? Is he the moderate
he is made out to be, or is he just a "sweeter" version
of Binyamin Netanyahu and Ariel Sharon? After all, he has overseen
a huge expansion of illegal Jewish settlements while simultaneously
talking about his desire for peace with the Palestinians.
[Picciotto] Events showed him to be either a startlingly inept
politician, or a totally contradictory one. Probably both.
[Redress] Assuming that the Oslo process has gone as far as it could, what do you think should be the way forward?
[Picciotto] I wish I could make a constructive suggestion.
[Redress] How significant do you think are joint Arab-Jewish
actions against the occupation, such as the "die-in"
staged in London in December by Jews Against the Occupation and
the international petition by Jews
Against the Occupation? Do you think we are likely to see more
such joint activities?
[Picciotto] I hope that such joint actions demonstrate that it
is possible for people with Jewish and Arab backgrounds to share
common political perspectives, and help to alert Western public
opinion to the issues.
[Redress] For many people - Arabs, Jews and others - joint activities by Jews and Arabs against the Israeli occupation represent the only glimmer of hope for a just and lasting solution to the Palestine-Israel conflict. They also help to debunk the Zionist argument which equates criticism of Israel with anti-Semitism. How do you think such activities should proceed and what form should they take?
[Picciotto] I strongly support such activities, though I have been only peripherally involved in them myself.
[Redress] Professor Picciotto, thank you very much for your time.
© Redress Information & Analysis